queerbychoice (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
queerbychoice) wrote2002-05-06 12:20 am
queerbychoice) wrote2002-05-06 12:20 am
From a Comment I Just Left in Implodes's Journal
I maintain that everyone is born with the potential to be attracted to anyone, but that being pressured/terrified into trying to run away from one's ability to desire a particular gender, and told that you have no choice about it, tends to interfere with many people's ability to make free and well-informed choices. If someone told you, "Here is a red shirt and here is a blue shirt, AND IF YOU EVER FOR ONE SECOND EVEN FLEETINGLY DESIRE TO WEAR THAT STUPID FUCKING HIDEOUS BLUE SHIRT THEN GODDAMNIT I'LL DISOWN YOU FOR EVEN DARING TO DESIRE SUCH A DISGUSTING AND UNNATURAL THING, ONLY GENETICALLY DEFECTIVE HALFWITS WITH THEIR BIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS WIRED ALL BACKWARDS WOULD EVER DESIRE SUCH A DISGUSTINGLY HIDEOUS THING AS TO WEAR A SINFUL BLUE SHIRT, so ahem, you're going to freely choose to only ever desire to wear red shirts all your life, AREN'T YOU, GODDAMNIT?!?!?!?!" then would that affect what color of shirts you desire to wear?
I suspect that in that situation, approximately 90% of people would conveniently deny ever having had the slightest interest in wearing blue shirts, while the brave remaining approximately 10% would find the self-knowledge and honesty to recognize and confess that they have, indeed, experienced a natural and normal human desire to wear blue shirts. They might also desperately plead that they hadn't chosen to desire to wear blue shirts, that this desire was natural to them - which I think it is in a way, but it's also natural for all those people who are frantically denying that they've ever had the slightest interest in wearing any blue shirts to desire to wear blue shirts on occasion too, and they've chosen to desperately suppress and deny those desires.
I suspect that in that situation, approximately 90% of people would conveniently deny ever having had the slightest interest in wearing blue shirts, while the brave remaining approximately 10% would find the self-knowledge and honesty to recognize and confess that they have, indeed, experienced a natural and normal human desire to wear blue shirts. They might also desperately plead that they hadn't chosen to desire to wear blue shirts, that this desire was natural to them - which I think it is in a way, but it's also natural for all those people who are frantically denying that they've ever had the slightest interest in wearing any blue shirts to desire to wear blue shirts on occasion too, and they've chosen to desperately suppress and deny those desires.
no subject
no subject
What I mean by queer by choice in my own case is actually much more specific than the above, and is best outlined on my biographical profile here.
no subject
i don't know... i always heard people assert that
sexuality was a choice but i was thinking of it
in the positive sense, as in "whom you are
attracted to is a choice" which never was the
case for me. but it makes sense in the negative:
"it is a choice to ignore one's attractions for
certain people." i suppose i never thought of
that as sexuality though. being a big fan of
freud's, i always just called it "repression" ;)
two questions for you
I got it from the library but haven't started it; I figured you might have read it and wondered if you had any thoughts on it.
2. (not really related) How were you able to make your community join other communities? I want to do that with mine (http://www.livejournal.com/~no_sissies), but I can't figure it out.
no subject
Awesome!
I'll probably be using this example -- with due credit, of course -- to explain "queer theory 101" to individuals who are willing to listen to my perspectives on sexuality, but who have a little difficulty with the (rather specific) jargon that I sometimes use to discuss it.
Re: two questions for you
2. Um, er, actually, I didn't have the slightest desire to make my community join other communities. The owners of the other communities just added me to their communities without asking me first. I do know how to add other communities to your community - just log in to the community accound, and add the other communities to your community's friends list. (After other people did it to my community, I did it to theirs in return, on the grounds that if they're advertising their community on mine's userinfo page, then I can certainly advertise mine on theirs too.) But if you want your community to join another one, instead of vice versa, then I think you'd have to contact the owner of the other community and have them add your community to their community's friends list.
Hey look, I was very unhelpful on both your questions! :-)
no subject
Re: Awesome!
Glad you liked it. I suspect I'll be quoting myself on this one in a few other places, too.
no subject
Just to add to it... don't forget the subversive and subtle messages people get to wear red shirts, too- the informal social controls... such as almost everyone around you wearing red shirts, and seeing what happens to people who wear blue shirts, and almost everyone in every form of our mainstream media wearing red shirts, and mainstream books, movies, television shows being made for people who desire to wear red shirts... even if, EVEN IF, no one ever specifically told you not to wear a blue shirt, or not so directly anyway, how would you know if you wanted to wear a blue shirt if the entire society was set up for people with red shirts to reap all the benefits and rewards?
no subject
i'm honestly curious about one thing, but you don't have to answer as i don't want to sound as if i'm critiquing your identity. anway, i'm surprised that someone who doesn't reveal/blends gender identifies as bisexual and uses phrases like "both genders," since the binary M & F excludes genderqueers/trannies/intersex people.
no subject
As for identifying as "bisexual" . . . technically yeah, I'm more than just bi, but I suppose I feel a need for a word that straight people understand and look up in search engines? Actually, that choice of words probably deserves more thought, because I'm having trouble figuring out what my reasons for it are anymore. Maybe I'll change it.
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
See, because some people, well, some people don't like sushi. They get nauseated at the sight of it. They can't IMAGINE anyone actually WANTING to eat sushi. But would we say that they were BORN not liking sushi? What a ludicrous idea.
Some of this dislike of sushi comes from upbringing, I'm sure. Parents who tell their children that people who like sushi are... well, they're not good people. And some people, as a result of this training, never try sushi. Some become more adventurous, and try it, and decide they like it more than, say... hot dogs, which their parents told them were a nice, wholesome food.
Some people are raised in a household where liking sushi isn't an issue, or they are told by their parents, "I don't like sushi, but you're welcome to try it." These people may like their first taste of sushi, or they may not. And maybe later, the ones that don't like it will try it and think, "You know, this isn't half bad. I can't imagine why I didn't like this before."
Some people like hot dogs as children, but decide later that they aren't so good.
I, on the other hand, like both sushi AND hot dogs. Which do I like better? Well, depends on how well it's prepared.
no subject
Oh, but I do like tie-died shirts...hrm...
Re: two questions for you
New kid on the block
I'm relatively new to LJ and really enjoying it. I must confess, however, that the subject at hand is somewhat flustering to me. There was a time, even as recent as a year ago, when there was NO WAY I could have read stuff like this without getting terribly upset. Obviously this is quite revealing about me rather than the whole "queer by choice," topic. It is with gratitude at this point, having discovered this group, because this contributes all the more to the direction toward a more expansive worldview toward which the Universe is guiding me. Now on to my perspective in all this.
I consider myself to be gay. Having been aware since I was four years old of my attraction to the same sex in spite of my immediate socio-religious environment brings me to the conclusion that, for me, this was not a conscious, reasoned out choice. A four year old has no standards of morality. A four year old only knows what he likes and what he does not like. Consequences as a result of cause and effect is a concept developed much later in life, four years having been an insufficient life experience base upon which to build such complex thought processes around matters as involved as sexuality. I remember having my first experience with a boy at the tender age of ten and feeling absolutely no guilt...just fear of discovery. The years passed and I absorbed the surrounding cultural values, living in ever-growing denial, finally succumbing to it all and getting married. Ten years and three children later, I could no longer live the lie and decided to live authentically. To date, THIS is the conscious, reasoned out choice which has had the most profound impact on my life. You may ask, "How on earth could you marry AND have children if you were gay?" To this I would refer the sincere inquirer to the kapos in the concentration camps of Nazi Germany. These people were Jews, yet they collaborated with their oppressors in order to survive. It is truly amazing how adaptable we are as a species...sometimes tragically so.
All that said, hopefully no one suspects me of trying to convert anyone in here to my point of view. Having been disrespected plenty for my own, I dare not exhibit such behaviour toward others. I simply wanted to give some input, hopefully of some value, with the intent of generating more healthy dialogue.
Blessings and Light,
David
Re: New kid on the block
How old were you when you learned what the word "gay" meant?
Did you immediately apply it to yourself the first time you heard it?
Was there any doubt in your mind then?
What exactly does it mean to say you were attracted to someone when you were four years old? What does "attraction" consist of at that age?
Just curious . . .
well...
Re: well...
If you reap the benefits of wearing a red shirt, it's good of you if you invest any extra energy you save from not experiencing blueshirtphobia into fighting to prevent others from being victimized by it. If you're doing that, though, I don't see how anyone could possibly complain. Heck, I'm quite as fond of red shirts as of blue shirts, myself.