Look, Mind-Boggling Gender Idiocy! What Else Is New?

[queerbychoice]

You know, it's bad enough that a survey conducted by the European Men’s Health Forum found that half the men surveyed "thought that women had a prostate but they just did not have as many problems with it as men" and that "the majority thought that chlamydia, the most common sexually transmitted infection in the UK, was a type of edible shellfish."

Yes, I'd say that's plenty bad enough. But you know what manages to get even worse than that?

For a start, there's the fact that the European Men’s Health Forum itself, in their efforts to help cure this ignorance, has decided that the only way to get men to understand women's health is to put the lessons in the form of a "car manual," "using motoring jargon to take them under the female bonnet."

But no, that isn't the worst of it either. It gets even more worse after that. See, one of the lessons that these supposed experts are trying to get the word out about in order to help supposedly alleviate men's ignorance of women's health is the "fact" that, "Men's brains work differently to women's. They want to ask a question and get an answer."

Uh, right. I happen to also like being able to ask a question and get an answer. And don't give me any John Gray "Women Are from Venus" nonsense about how I supposedly complain about problems wanting only expressions of sympathy and not suggested solutions, because in my experience it's overwhelmingly been me who does the suggesting of solutions and is perplexed when people fail to appreciate that and complain that all they wanted was sympathy.

It would be really nice if the very experts out to alleviate ignorance were not themselves spreading greater ignorance instead.

Comments

[unitarymatrix.livejournal.com]

random article (http://www.livejournal.com/community/anthropologist/295133.html) I thought you might like.

[queerbychoice.livejournal.com]

Wah! Why did she have to die so few months after I first heard about the language?

[tristissima.livejournal.com]

There's a language (unfortunately not natural) called Laadan that was created by linguist and sci-fi author Suzette Haden Elgin to be a women's language. You might want to check that out, there's an LJ community for it and everything.

[sammka.livejournal.com]

There are also women's dialects in a whole lot of highly homosocial cultures. I remember reading that there are women's dialects of Arabic as well, for example. Ones that are almost unintelligible by nonspeakers.

[heron61.livejournal.com]

However, everything regarding Suzette Haden Elgin should be taken with many grains of salt. I've heard her speak at SF cons several times and she is exceedingly into the idea of innate differences between men and women (or at least she was in the late 1980s) and her novels very much reflected these beliefs.

[cheeser1.livejournal.com]

i knew a couple girls way back in high school who spoke some jibberish language, i think it was modified pig latin or something. they'd always talk about secret stuff or something, or so they say - i never knew what they were saying. those were the days. sorry, i'm reminiscing.

[sammka.livejournal.com]

But the knowledge that women don't want answers when they ask questions will prevent disease, death, and despair, and overall improve the health of all Europeans! I mean, I know this one guy who thought that women's brains worked exactly the same as men's, and he died! Of um... a disease! Yeah!

That said, when I read that article it seemed to me like the quote came from an interview, and was meant to explain why they needed to put an FAQ section in it (because men want answers!). Apparently FAQ sections and guides that answer common questions are entirely useless in the hands of women.

Since after all, women are automobiles. When was the last time you saw an automobile even read a flyer? Not very recently, I bet! So while men want to ask a question and get an answer, women really just want a good driver who'll change their oil every once in a while. It's a biological (mechanical?) fact.

Well, I sure feel educated now. I hope you do too!

[queerbychoice.livejournal.com]

"That said, when I read that article it seemed to me like the quote came from an interview"

Oh, are men allowed to be stupider in interviews than in writing? Nobody informed me of that regulation.

[cheeser1.livejournal.com]

you mean if i tell everybody i'm a man, i get away with being stupid!?

and all this time, i thought i had to make some effort to be intelligible! sheesh!

while an "FAQ" or "user's manual" is, in some generality, a halfway-good idea to try to give some sort of general knowledge about this sort of thing, it's really not the kind of thing that can ever describe anything near the intricacies of any single person, man, woman, or otherwise.

and something like "their brains work different" is about the dumbest thing i've ever heard. just because you don't understand them doesn't mean they are all categorically different than you. you'd think modern science would have come up with an FAQ about how not to be ignorant.

[queerbychoice.livejournal.com]

No no, it's not enough to just tell everybody you're a man. You must also pass extensive tests to be accepted as one. These tests typically involve loud demonstrations of one's homophobia and sexism, plus wearing cowboy boots also seems to help.

[cheeser1.livejournal.com]

SHUT UP HOMO!!


(did that work?)

[queerbychoice.livejournal.com]

I think it's already too late for you to be able to pass as a "real man" with me. You've already given yourself away as an effeminate imitation.

[cheeser1.livejournal.com]

are you trying to call me a sissy? i could beat you up, and then go play football, and then punch some people. you just watch me. i'll do it, i swear.

[chisparoja.livejournal.com]

you mean if i tell everybody i'm a man, i get away with being stupid!?

sadly. look at what passes for a president in the usa, or a prime minister in italy. :p

[sammka.livejournal.com]

while an "FAQ" or "user's manual" is, in some generality, a halfway-good idea to try to give some sort of general knowledge about this sort of thing, it's really not the kind of thing that can ever describe anything near the intricacies of any single person, man, woman, or otherwise.

Luckily, though, it wasn't trying to. From what I can tell it's a guide to female health issues like menopause and breast cancer. From what I can tell, most health-info-oriented pamphlets are based on the idea of conveying general information about widespread health issues, not teaching someone about the intricacies of a single person.

Not that I don't think this is a stupid idea. It's just that I actually thought the FAQ was like the one good idea buried in there (hey, answering frequently asked questions is a great way to present things in a clear manner to a wide variety of people!). It sure is stupid that someone thinks only men benefit from FAQs because their brains work differently (though I still think that it's less bad that someone said this in an interview than it would be if the "user's manual" itself said so), and the whole "user's manual" thing is not only tacky but actively degrading. But saying "here are questions men often ask about women's health, let's answer them briefly here" is a pretty good idea.

[cheeser1.livejournal.com]

yeah, in general.

but i feel like, if you talk down to someone (a man, in this case), and say "here is a woman user manual, you like cars, you should be able to figure this out" it isn't really fair, and it also implies that, somehow, this manual covers everything they'd need to know (since you have to force-feed them everything, if you make a user manual, it should have everything they need, right?)

*shrug*

[sammka.livejournal.com]

Sometimes you just assume that you're covering at least all of what they need to know that you can get across to them, and figure that if you included actual bits of complexity you'll just lose them ;p.

Also when you're writing pamphlets you're really constrained by the whole idea of making stuff so simple and in such a familiar layout that it's impossible for even a dumb, casual reader to get bored with it and stop reading. It's a trade-off between getting across real, in-depth information (and potentially losing a lot of people) and getting across bare-bones gists of things (and reaching more people).

At least that's what became clear to me after hanging out in health offices a whole lot and using the leaflets there as casual reading while waiting for a nurse or doctor. I think that's how a lot of leaflets get read.

[sammka.livejournal.com]

Well, it means that this is the interviewee's random opinion, not something being presented as fact to everyone who reads the pamphlet.

See, I may be crazy but I think that people are allowed to be stupider in interviews than in widely distributed public health information. The consequences are smaller.

[queerbychoice.livejournal.com]

Eh, that article could easily be more widely distributed than the pamphlet itself.

[sammka.livejournal.com]

True, but even then they're contextually different. I mean, I like to think that someone will believe what's said in a health pamphlet more than what's said by random talking heads in a news article. Then again I could easily be wrong. People are pretty dumb.

I'd also hope that if the pamphlet is intended to remedy widespread ignorance, it will be distributed in, like, a widespread manner. But then again I might be overestimating the intelligence of bureaucracies.

[en-ki.livejournal.com]

it's overwhelmingly been me who does the suggesting of solutions and is perplexed when people fail to appreciate that and complain that all they wanted was sympathy

I'm sorry, but this means you have a penis, or at least oughtoo've. If you've lost it, you're just out of luck.

[queerbychoice.livejournal.com]

Is there a "Lost & Found Penises" somewhere that you could give me the address for?

[en-ki.livejournal.com]

Prince William County Government
1 County Complex Court
Prince William, VA 22192

[heron61.livejournal.com]

Actually, the most appropriate address I can think of would be:
Prince Albert County Government
1 County Complex Court
Prince Prince, VA 22192

[deadinmotion.livejournal.com]

Dear Gayle,

I was unable to fully comprehend this journal entry. To make further entries more accessible for me, please write them in car manual format.

Yours,
Sean

[proudduckling.livejournal.com]

Yeah, and all this time I've been asking questions and thinking I wanted answers. But really I was just deceiving myself. How blind I've been.

[donutgirl.livejournal.com]

Ack!

*throws something across room*

MMMMMmmmmmmmm GOOD!

[joannasatana.livejournal.com]

I'd LOVE to have a nice heaping steamy bowl of Clamidias right now....
now THAT'S EATIN!

[sankta.livejournal.com]

Every time I see the results of one of these "public health surveys," I can't help but think of the ones we were given in high school, with the instructions to be "perfectly honest!!" and questions on subjects like "When did you lose your virginity," "Have you ever smoked pot," and "When did you first try alcohol?" Most people get sarcastic when they're talked down to by a survey, and circled options like 'I lost my virginity below the age of ten' and 'I have been an alcoholic for five or more years.' If it was a similar survey, and a voluntary one of male adults.. I'd expect a lot of sarcasm. All the males I know certainly know chlamydia is an STD, if only because it sounds amusingly like a girl's name (and nothing is more indicative of the heterosexual male than being able to make STD jokes about baby names.)

It seems like being blunt and direct like you or I tend to be is seen as a "man" thing, or a "dyke" thing. Trying to argue the latter point can be kind of hard for me lately when I've got my arm around a girl, though.